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Tir Righ IL dated 2011-07-05 (Jump to Submissions)

Greetings unto the College of Heralds!

Commentary on this letter is due Aug 2.

Red Flame Herald meetings:

· The June IL will be discussed on Saturday July 9 at The Stranded Mermaid in the Shire of False Isle. Due to the number of submissions on this letter we will only discuss those where I would like additional input.

· The July IL is tentatively scheduled for discussion on Sunday August 6 in the Shire of False Isle.

· The August IL will be discussed Sunday September 11 in the Shire of False Isle.

Please email redflame@tirrigh.org for the exact time and location of the meetings.

From Red Flame:

We have a smaller Internal Letter this month due to the postal strike, but with mail delivery back, I hope to see more submissions on the next letter.

Once again I would like to reminder Tir Righ heralds that you are encouraged to join our commentary team. You do not need to be an expert. A comment which says "I think this may conflict with … because…" is useful to me and other commenters. You may have spotted something others have missed. If it's not a conflict, we will tell you why and this will help you learn and become a better herald. Anyone who has an interest is welcome to comment on these letters. Please contact myself or Silver Yale if you are interested or would like more information.

I hope everyone has a fun and safe summer.

Alicia Red Flame

Red Flame Actions:

The following submissions have been forwarded to Laurel:

· Wulfgar Bradax - New Name and New Device: Gyronny arrondi ermine and sable, a bordure gules bezanty.

The following submissions have been returned by Red Flame Herald for further work:

· None

1: David of Malaspina - New Name

• Submitter desires a male name.

The submitter allows all changes, desires a male name and cares most about the spelling.

The submitter included the following summary:

I would prefer the name "David of Malaspina" as a person who might be from one of the Malaspina Castles, rather than part of the Malaspina family, but will accept "David Malaspina" if necessary. I care only about the spelling of the name, and do not care when or where the name is from.


This is my legal first name; I can provide proof if it's necessary to use the legal name allowance.

A sample of Jewish names in Milan 1540-1570 compiled by Yehoshua ben Haim haYerushalmi (MKA Zachary Kessin)

http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/Jewish/milan_names.html includes:

David de Suavis

Simone de Suavis son of David

Names of Jews in Rome In the 1550's, Table of Names compiled by Yehoshua ben Haim haYerushalmi (MKA Zachary Kessin)

http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/Jewish/rome_names.html includes:

29 names with David as first name

Bella Fiore the Daughter of David


There was an Italian family by the name of Malaspina. They had several castles , all of them called Castle Malaspina. I have included information on Malaspina Castle of Malgrate which indicates it was "developed in 1275" and was owned by the family until "the dominion of the powerful family finished in the year 1615".


Historia dell'origine et successione dell'illustrissima famiglia Malaspina by Thomaso Porcacchi was written in Italian in 1585 and verifies this spelling of the name.


Histoire Des Chevaliers De L'Ordre De L'Hospital De S. Iean De Hiervsalem by Pierre de Boissat, written in French in 1612 mentions, on page 750 "le Regiment d'Hippolyte de Malaspina".


Annales de la ville de Toulouse, Volume 1 by Germain de La Faille, written in French in 1687 mentions "Petrus de Malaspina" on pages 6 & 44.


I am not sure if the "de" in the previous two French examples translates to "of".

The variations de Mallaspina, di Malaspina, di Malaspina, di Malaspine, Spin, de Spin are listed several times in Selections of families - divided by region and province - whose coats of arms are reproduced in the Stemmario Trivulziano (under Emilia, Liguria, Lombardia (Pavia), Piemonte, and Toscana).


As I do not have access to the book (Stemmario Trivulziano), I'm hoping someone who has the book can verify if "di Malaspina" was used in our period as this translates to "of Malaspina". (I only included printouts for Emilia and Liguria to cut down on paper.)

1: David of Malaspina - New Device

Gules, a scaling ladder between two axes Or.

2: Principality of Tir Righ - New Heraldic Title

Black Adderbolt Herald

• No major changes.
• Sound most important.

The submitter will not accept major changes and cares most about sound (not specified).

Black Adderbolt Herald follows the Project Ordensnamen construction elements of Color + Creature.

Adderbolt is found on the Oxford Etymology Dictionary at http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=dragonfly&searchmode=none

Adderbolt (late 15c.) was a former name for "dragonfly".

The form is signed by the Prince and Princess of Tir Rígh.

Note from Red Flame: The spelling of the Filing Name should be "Principality of Tir Rígh" with an acute accent over the last 'i'.

3: Uilliam mac Fearchair mhic Gille Aindrias - New Badge

(Fieldless) A demi frog vert.

This submission is to be associated with Clan MacAndrew

The submitter's name was registered in May of 2005 (via An Tir).

The household name "Clan MacAndrew" was registered to the submitter in January of 2006 (via An Tir).

The submitter has two other pieces of registered armory; if registered this will be his third.

4: William of the Battered Helm - Resub Appeal of Laurel Return of Device

Sable, on a chevron argent between two ram's heads respectant and a ram's horn Or, three hoof prints sable.

From the submitter:

My name is William of the Battered Helm, KSCA. I am trying to find a way pass my device.

This is the only device that I have had, and used, since I began playing with the SCA in 1984. Several attempts were made and rejected. Now there is apparently a conflict with another gentle from the East Kingdom (?), who had his device passed after mine had been rejected. This gentle has not been active in the SCA since the late 1990's.

Like many others, while I designed a device early in my SCA career, I had not realized the importance of having it registered. This changed when I applied for the position of Yeoman in our local Barony; as a submitted device was a requirement.

When my name and device were submitted, the name I had chosen was passed and registered, however, the device was returned as we had called the hoof prints as those of a Bighorn Ram, which had no heraldic term. The device was then resubmitted using the term 'sheep' prints. My device was rejected a second time, stating that this time it conflicted with someone else's due to the point system.

Many times, I have attempted to get my device resubmitted and registered. Many heralds have been involved, and I have been unable to get my device registered, no matter how many different excuses I was given.

In 2010, at Pennsic, I consulted with Countess Elizabeth Rossignol, who was Laurel Queen of Arms at the time. She went through her reference material, and stated that she saw no conflicts in her search, and advised to resubmit my device. When I returned home, I did as advised, and again submitted my device to the heralds. This time, it was rejected, and I was advised that the reason was the current conflict with another gentle in the East Kingdom. This gentle's device was passed after my device had been refused multiple times.

This gentle has not played within the SCA since the late 1990's, however, I have been given no information, or way, to contact them and obtain a letter of permission to conflict.

Since the two devices look nothing alike, and the rules have again changed, I am hoping that the new point system will mean enough difference for mine to pass.

Through the years, I have been assisted by the Baronial Herald of Lions Gate (An Tir),those being Colin MacKay of Balmaghie, Harold Devon of Waltham, William MacAndrew of Ross of Balnagown (now known as Uilliam mac Fearchair mhic Gille Aindrias), and Caitrina inghean Aindriasia. These gentles have put many hours into research and referencing, trying to assist me in this endeavour.

As I have been trying to pass this device for over 20 years, I would appreciate it if you could find the time to re-evaluate my device, and see if we have finally overcome all the past obstacles.

The submitter's name was registered in November of 1991 (via An Tir). It sounds like he also submitted his device for the first time (and returned by kingdom because of the blazoning of the hoof prints??) but I don't have access to those records to check.

His submission of this device was returned by Laurel in September 1994 (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/1994/09/lar.html)

William of the Battered Helm. Device. Sable, on a chevron argent between two ram's heads respectant and a ram's horn Or three hoof prints sable.

If I may quote from the commentary of Actuarius and Orle: "We have rules for the purpose of giving us objective standards for the comparison of armory. This permits us to definitely state that two pieces of armory are in conflict with one another, or that they are clear of conflict and permits us to clearly state why. This frees us from having to depend on finding the 'most myopic person on this planet' to make our judgements for us. We understand that you may feel that your device and the cited conflict are very different, however under our rules they are in conflict. While we can sympathize with the submitter's feelings we must follow the rules. The kingdom College of Heralds was correct in their return." This submission is in conflict with Tibbs as cited in the LoI. It is also in conflict with Cowper (Papworth, p. 521), Sable, on a chevron between three goat's heads couped argent, as many ogresses. Though technically no closer to the submission than Tibbs by the RfS, it is perhaps visually closer to the non-heraldic eye.

A resubmission was on the December 2009 An Tir ILoI (http://antirheralds.org/oscar/index.php?action=100&loi=176) and returned at Kingdom in February 2010 (http://www.antirheralds.org/oscar/index.php?action=100&loi=178)

William of the Battered Helm. Device, Resubmission to Laurel. Sable, on a chevron argent between two ram's heads respectant and a ram's horn fesswise Or three ram's hoofprints sable.

This device is returned for conflict with the armory of Westan Locke (August 1998 via Atlantia), Sable, on a chevron argent between three keys palewise wards to base Or, three crows close contourny sable. There is only a single CD via RfS X.4.e for changing the type of charges in the secondary charge group. There is not a CD via RfS X.4.j.ii for changing the type of charge in the tertiary charge group because in William's armory, there are three types of charges directly on the field. This conflict could be avoided by changing the charge in base to a ram's head, as it would allow for the CD via RFS X.4.j.ii.

Some additional information supplied by Caitrina Silver Yale:

Greetings unto Countess Elisabeth de Rossignol, Laurel Sovereign of Arms Pro Tempore

Blazon: Sable, on a chevron argent between two ram's heads respectant and a ram's horn Or, three hoof prints sable.

William's name was registered in 1991 and I've been told his device was first submitted at the same time but returned as it was found to be in conflict with a mundane device. As the An Tir electronic archives do not go back that far, I cannot confirm this info.

In 2003 he was advised that device submissions were no longer conflict checked against mundane arms and so contacted me as I was his Branch Herald at the time to resubmit his device. During discussions with the An Tir College it was found to be in conflict with a gentle by the name of Westan Locke (Blazon: Sable, on a chevron argent between three keys palewise wards to base Or, three crows close contourny sable.)

Since 2003, myself, the past and present Triton Principal Herald and some other concerned Heralds have searched for this gentle to get permission to conflict. His last known Branch was the Barony of Bright Hills and although I was able to obtain Westan's address from his Branch Herald via his original submission, all letters came back address unknown. I've been told no one has seen or heard from Westan in approx 10 to 12 years but again, this is not able to be confirmed as all further messages to the Barony of Bright Hills have gone unanswered. There is some debate on the validity of the conflict and as I said, although I don't fully agree on the issue, I did give my word I would follow through with an appeal.

It is William's thought that if his voice could be heard past the Kingdom level that his device may have a chance to succeed as he has had some Heralds advise they do not agree with the past returns. He assures me he means no disrespect and hopes his efforts do not offend. He just wants to ensure he has exhausted all avenues at his disposal before he resigns himself to having to change a device he has been using for over 20 years.

For your consideration.

In Service I remain,

Caitrina Silver Yale

Thus ends the July 2011 Internal Letter of Intent.

In service to the Principality of Tir Righ and to the College of Heralds,

Alicia le Wilfulle, OL

Red Flame Herald


An Tir OSCAR counts: 1 New Name, 1 New Heraldic Title, 1 New Device, 1 New Badge. This gives 4 new items. Resub counts: 1 Resub Device. This is a total of 1 resubmission on this letter, for a total of 5 actions.

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