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An Tir IL dated 2010-01-07 (Jump to Submissions)

Unto Gwenlian Black Lion, Elizabeth Lions Blood, and the esteemed members of the An Tir College of Heralds to whom this missive comes, Lí Ban ingen Echtigeirn, Boar, sends greetings and felicitations.


The December meeting will be held at the Federal Way 320th Library, located at 848 S. 320th St., Federal Way, WA 98003. This site is in Wyewood, and the date is January 23, 2010. We'll begin at 1:00 PM.

We will not be having a meeting in February since there are so few items on this letter. The March meeting will hopefully be back in the Barony of Adiantum. Stay tuned; hopefully we will actually have a good-sized letter to discuss!


Greetings unto the College of Heralds from Elizabeth Lions Blood!

This month we grieve with those who knew and loved Katriona of the Fields, former Vox Leonis, and also with our brothers and sisters of the scribal community for the loss of Sharon the Merchant's Wife, Principality Scribe of the Summits. Our hearts go out to those survived by them and hope that the New Year brings healing and peace.

I want to thank all of the commentary heralds who take the time to work on the Internal Letter. There is not enough I can say for how much each of you is appreciated. As I read commentary, I learn about the process, the rules and about heraldry in general, and it has, so far, been a magnificent experience. If any of you who do not comment on the letter currently wish to, please let me know and I'm fairly certain it can be arranged.

Remember that the meeting for the items on the December IL is scheduled for January in Wyewood, and I encourage those of you who live in the area to attend. It is my goal to move my meeting around so that everyone who wants the opportunity to attend is able. If you are interested in hosting a meeting, please let me know! I am willing to go pretty much anywhere between Ashland and Seattle - it's slightly difficult for me to justify traveling further than that for a 4-5 hour meeting.

Please be safe as the New Year approaches, and best wishes for all of you in the days and months to come!

For Crown, Coronet and College,

Elizabeth Turner de Carlisle

Lions Blood Herald


The following is an excerpt from the cover letter of the November 2009 LoAR:

From Laurel: Schedule Change

The advent of OSCAR has eliminated the need for a designated period of time for comments on commentary. Since we are no longer dependent on the post office to carry our discussions, but can get nearly immediate feedback from our colleagues, this period is no longer necessary.

Therefore, we are reducing the commentary period to eliminate the month that was originally used for responses. Starting with January 2010 Letters of Intent, the full commentary period will be two months after the month of publication. All January 2010 LoIs will be decided at the same time as the December 2009 LoIs, and they will be published together on the April 2010 LoAR.

From Laurel: New Administrative Handbook

While the new Administrative Handbook has been released for some time, and can be found at http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/admin.html, we have never officially announced or enforced it.

As of the publication of this Letter, the new Administrative Handbook is fully in force. We will be lenient on some requirements and deadlines for a few months. However, the packet deadline of one month following the month in which a Letter of Intent is posted to OSCAR will be enforced immediately, since the schedule change leaves us with less wiggle room. The deadline for payments will be the last day of the commentary period for the LoI.

From Laurel: Extending RfS II.5, Registered Names

As our Society ages, it is becoming more and more apparent that we need to find a way to honor those whose footsteps paved the way and whose hands shaped our Society. One thing we can do is to allow orders to be named for these treasured individuals. As our understanding of names and naming practices have advanced over the years, many of the names of these individuals can no longer be registered. Following discussion of the rules change to the Grandfather Clause allowing branches to honor a past member with an order name in the Cover Letter to the March 2009 LoAR, the final wording is as follows. Italicized text is the addition or change in wording:

New wording for RfS II.5:

Once a name has been registered to an individual or group, the College of Arms may permit that particular individual or group to register elements of that name again, even if it is no longer permissible under the rules in effect at the time the later submission is made. This permission may be extended to close relatives of the submitter if the College of Arms deems it appropriate. In addition, this privilege may be extended to a branch in whose territory the individual lives or has lived, or with which the individual is closely associated. In general, branches will be expected to use only elements from registered primary names of individuals.

New wording for the Admin Handbook, IV.C.2 Documentation:

Documenting evidence must be included for all name elements, constructions, and patterns, as well as any non-standard armorial elements or practices. Such documentation must include references to specific pages and/or entries in the source material. Citations must be sufficiently complete to allow identification of the source and its usefulness, which generally includes author, title, and publication information (for print sources) or URL (for online sources). Except for documentation from items in Appendix H (the No-Photocopy List), such documentation must include copies of cited source material. While the kingdom college and College of Arms may assist with research and documentation, the submitter bears responsibility for providing documentation for all submissions.

Documentation must also be presented for any elements allowed under the mundane name allowance or by mundane relationship under the grandfather clause. For branch submissions relying on grandfathered elements of personal names of individuals, the branch must document both the individual's relationship to the branch and the owner's permission to use the name element.

From Palimpsest: The Rules Discussion Redux

The Laurel office is reviewing our policies and procedures for submissions. We expect that the eventual outcome will be a complete rewrite of the Rules for Submissions. As part of this process, we're asking the populace and heralds to give us feedback about the heraldic submissions process and how it should work. A survey which asks some basic questions can be found at http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/GLJZDDZ; we'd appreciate it if interested people would take time to answer the questions there. Additional comments about or ideas for this process can be sent to rules@heraldry.sca.org or posted to the existing discussions on OSCAR.

We have several goals for this process:

- to make the Rules for Submissions easier to use for heralds and submitters alike

- to reduce discrepancies between the Rules as written and the Rules as applied

- to reflect on the degree of authenticity we want for the registration process and how best to codify rules to evaluate it

- to reconsider the level of difference we should require between names and devices for registration

In all areas, the Society for Creative Anachronism has moved towards progressively better understandings of what people did in our period. Given this trend, we are not interested in discussing rules changes that would substantially lower our standards for registration of names and armory. But we are interested in exploring ways to make it easier for people register items that are in period style, whether or not they fit the rules as they currently exist. We welcome ideas about how to do that from all sources.

The following items have been registered by Laurel

From the November 2009 LoAR:

Criostal Sealgaire. Device. Per bend sinister sable and argent, a hunting horn and a drawn bow bendwise sinister with arrow nocked counterchanged.

Derian le Breton. Badge. (Fieldless) Four ermine spots conjoined in saltire sable.

Leiðólfr Kvígsson. Household name House of Deepwater Keep.

Mevanou verch Reys Yriskynit. Name and device. Per pale azure and argent, a sun eclipsed counterchanged and on a chief sable three gouttes argent.

Submitted as Myfanwy< verch Rhys ar Ysginydd, the submitter requested authenticity for 13th C Welsh. Myfanwy, Rhys, and Ysginydd were all documented as standard modern forms; Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn, "A Simple Guide to Constructing 13th Century Welsh Names", gives the following 13th C spellings: Reys, Reis, Res, Mevanou, Skynith, Skinnith, and Skinith. The May 2009 LoAR notes:

Harpy comments that:

Although the initial vowel of the byname is most commonly dropped in Anglo-Latin documents [1], an older spelling of the full version can be seen in the citation of "Mad' ap Yriskynit" (i.e., Mad[og] ap yr Iskynit) from the 1320 Extent of Aberffraw (Seebohm, appendix Af).

[1] Medieval Welsh doesn't allow the initial consonant clusters "sg-", "st-" , "sb-" etc. and added an epenthetic vowel before the cluster, either in the evolution from a previous stage of the language (that allowed them) or when borrowing words beginning in these clusters from other languages.

[Tangwystl Ysginydd, LoAR 05/2009, Middle-R]

This shows that the definite article yr was used with the descriptive byname in the early 14th C; we have no reason to think it wasn't also used in the 13th C. We have changed the name to Mevanou verch Reys Yriskynit to meet her request for authenticity.

Precedent, set in the return of the device of Eirik Hrafnsson in November 1991, says "...we have not registered a sun eclipsed of the field since 1985, and it is questionable whether we want to start again now." Since that time, we have occasionally registered such eclipsing despite the existence of this precedent.

Last month, we registered a single-tinctured eclipsing that matched the field, explicitly overturning the November 1991 precedent only in that case. The November 1991 precedent is hereby entirely overturned. We rule that if the eclipsing is blazonable and not omni-tinctured, it is registerable, though we will not use the post-period term of the field to refer to it in our blazon.

However, we also rule that eclipsing with a multi-tinctured roundel is a step from period practice.

Mevanou verch Reys Yriskynit. Badge. Per pale azure and argent a sun eclipsed counterchanged.

As ruled above, exlipsing a sun with a multi-tinctured roundel is a step from period pratice.

Seraphina Raleigh. Device. Per fess azure and vert, a tree blasted and eradicated Or, a bordure Or semy of lozenges sable.

Siobhan a Burc. Device. Per bend gules and Or, a calligrapher's knife and a brazier counterchanged.

The knife in the submitted emblazon is the calligrapher's knife from the Pictorial Dictionary of Heraldry. There is enough variation in period depictions of knives used by calligraphers and heraldic art is stylized enough that retaining this version as our heraldically defined calligrapher's knife is reasonable.

Torsten von Hessen. Name and device. Purpure, two brocks combatant and on a chief triangular argent a cross potent sable.

This name combines Norwegian and German, which is a step from period practice. The submitter requested authenticity for 13th C German, but did not allow major changes. We have not found any forms of Torsten in German contexts; barring such examples, this name is not authentic.

Tristram le fiz Owein. Device. Per bend sinister argent and azure, three mullets one and two azure.

There was some call in commentary to return this for violating our ban on constellations. The ban is not on any arrangement of stars. The ban is on stars arranged in such a way that they are only blazonable by using the name of a constellation, such as "Ursa Major". Stars arranged in recognizable, blazonable heraldic arrangements do not violate this ban.

The following items have been returned for further work

From the November 2009 LoAR:



These items will be forwarded to Laurel, and are tentatively scheduled to be decided on in April of 2010.

Anastasia Komnene. Name, New

Andrew Crowe. Badge, New. Argent, in pale three ravens volant to sinister sable, a tierce azure.

Andronikos Belisariou. Name Change, New.

Brynný Loðinsdóttir of Axewater. Device, New. Quarterly gules and azure, an axe bendwise sinister reversed argent and in canton a mullet Or.

Caitrina inghean Aindriasa. Badge Change, New. (Fieldless) Eight thistles conjoined in annulo stems to center proper

Cara da Fortuna. Name & Device, New. Argent, on a chevron vert between three billets vert issuant from flames paly gules and Or, three bezants.

Originally submitted as Cara Dea da Fortuna, we have dropped the Dea in Kingdom to remove the allusion to the Goddess of Fortune that was intended by the submitter, since she allowed all changes. Overwhelmingly, the commentary indicated that they all saw the originally submitted name as presumptuous.

The flames were originally blazoned as proper, but they are not. We have therefore blazoned them paly gules and Or. It was suggested by commenting heralds that the depiction of flames only warranted an artist's note, and we agree.

Fionnghuala inghean Cheallaigh. Name, New. (See RETURNS for device.)

Originally submitted as Fionnghuala ingen Cellaig, changes were necessary to this name to correct the grammar as the father's name in the byname had to be lenited. Since the submitter allowed all changes, and her given name was not in use pre-1200, we changed the byname to match the language and time period of given name. Fionnghuala ingen Chellaig is a step from period practice (but registerable) because it combines Old/Middle Irish with Early Modern Irish.

Lothar filius Adalberti. Device, New. Quarterly arrondi argent and purpure, two trefoils in bend sinister Or.

There was a question of conflict with Gillian Brampton (February 2005 via Lochac): Per bend sinister gules and vert, two trefoils Or. Juliana Æstel provided the following precedent which would appear to clear the proposed armory from Gillian's:

[Quarterly argent and sable, in bend two cinquefoils gules.] This is clear of Christiana dello Falco: Quarterly sable and argent, in bend sinister, two roses proper. There is one CD for the field and one CD for the arrangement of the primary charges. There was some concern raised in commentary that the position of the charges was forced by the field, but in this case the change in arrangement is still worth a CD. To paraphrase Boke and Black/Golden Pillar (the latter is the same person with a title change in between comment dates): The placement of the roses or the foils in both this device and the proposed conflict is not forced, since the field is neutral and the charges could have appeared anywhere except wholly on the sable parts. This circumstance is sufficient to allow a CD for the change in arrangement. [Ysabella de Montrose, LoAR 07/2004, Lochac-A]

Like Ysabella's armory, the field in Lothar's proposed device is neutral, and the trefoils could be arranged in any fashion which did not cause them to fall totally on the argent parts of the field.

Monette Corbeau D'Anjou. Name, New.

The byname was submitted as D'Angou; we have changed it to D'Anjou to match the submitter's documentation.

Morgan O Sheahan. Name & Device, New. Argent, a bird rising sable and on a chief rayonny azure three mullets of seven points argent.

This name was originally submitted as Morgan O'Siodhachain. The byname suffered from a stylistic flaw as it combined Anglicized Irish O with Gaelic Siodhachain. In addition, the given name was Welsh, which has been ruled unregisterable with Gaelic. The submitter allowed no major changes, but communication between the submitter and Lions Blood granted permission to fully convert the byname into Anglicized Irish. The commentary showed two Anglicized Irish forms of Ò Siodhachain - O Sheahan and O Shehane. The submitter's preference was for the sound, and so we chose the former over the latter since to our ears the latter was bound to be pronounced /SHEE-hayn/ rather than the preferred /SHEE-hahn/.

We ask the College to reconsider the precedent forbidding Welsh/Gaelic combinations. Noting the great contact between the cultures, we argue that it should at the least be permissible to register a Welsh/Gaelic combination as a step from period practice. The submitter would truly prefer Morgan Ò Siodhachain if the precedent is overturned.

We note that the mullets probably need to be drawn larger and hope this only warrants an artist's note.

Owen Hallehyne. Device, Resubmission to Kingdom. Per pale argent and sable, two wings inverted and addorsed counterchanged.

Randolph of Sussex. Alternate Name, New. Jan Caterin of Wykham Market .

Reneé de Josselin. Name & Device, New. Argent, a horse courant contourny sable and a bordure gules.

Sara de Bonneville. Name & Device, Resubmission to Kingdom. Argent semy-de-lys sable, on a dance vert a fox courant argent.

Sara de Bonneville. Badge, Resubmission to Kingdom. (Fieldless) On a fleur-de-lys sable a fox's head argent.

Symmone la Merciere. Name & Device, New. Per bend argent and Or, a talbot sejant gules and a bordure sable.

The byname was originally submitted as La Merciere, however, we could not find any justification for the capital L. It was changed to lowercase to match the documentation.

Tir Righ, Principality of. Order Name, New. Order of the Silver Talon.

Tir Righ, Principality of. Order Name, New. Order of the Guardians of Tir Righ.

The submitters have permission to conflict with Order of the Guardians of Atenvelt.

Tir Righ, Principality of. Order Name, New. Order of the Blue Spear.

Tir Righ, Principality of. Order Name, New. Order of the Blue Lily.

This Order name does not conflict with <Order of the Gryphon's Spear>, registered in August 1997 via the Middle to the Barony of the Flaming Gryphon. RfS V.2.b.ii states that two non-personal names containing equivalent descriptive elements do not conflict if either the order of the elements or the grammatical structure of the name has changed in a way that significantly changes the meaning of the name as a whole. <Gryphon's Spear> means that the gryphon has possession of the spear. <Gryphon and Spear> means that there are two things, a gryphon and a spear. We consider this a significant change of meaning

Tir Righ, Principality of. Badge, New. (Fieldless) In pale a raven's leg couped argent sustaining a hurt.

Tomas de Courcy. Name, Resubmission to Laurel & Device, Resubmission to Kingdom. Ermine, on a pale endorsed vert three roundels argent.

These items are being returned for further work

• Fionnghuala inghean Cheallaigh. Device, New. Vert, a pair of shears Or and on a chief azure three daisies proper.

This device suffers from a fatal flaw - it places a color chief on a color field. It was noted in commentary that Vert, a pair of shears Or and in chief three daisies proper was clear of conflict and would solve the style issue.

Penwlas, Barony of. Branch Name & Device, New. Sable, on a fess argent between two laurel wreathes argent, three pine trees couped gules.

Despite the massive amount of documentation for this submission, there was no actual documentation for the spelling "Penwlas". Since the submitters allow no changes, this must be returned. The device is returned for lack of a name to forward with it.

We suggest using one of the period variants of "Penn-an-wlas" that Juliana proposed - Pen an gluas or Pen an ulays - or Penwith as as demonstrated in the documentation.

Sara de Bonneville. Badge, Resubmission to Kingdom. (Fieldless) On a torch enflamed proper a fox's head argent.

This badge is returned for a problematic emblazon. First, it is far too pixellated to remain identifiable. Second, the flames on the torch are not proper. Third, there is no proper defined for a torch, though a wooden torch is acceptable as a charge. Please advise the submitter how to draw flames proper of alternating tongues of gules and Or rather than random streaks of gules.

Tir Righ, Principality of. Badge, New. Azure, in pale a mullet of eight points argent and a candle argent enflamed in a flat candlestick Or.

This badge is returned for conflict with the badge of Rivenstar, Barony of (August 1979 via the Middle), Azure, a riven star argent with one CD for the addition of the candle. It is also in conflict with Society for Creative Anachronism (March 1986 via Laurel), Azure, a candle enflamed within an arch stooped argent, with one CD for the change of secondary from arch to mullet. A third conflict is Rurik the Axe-finder (August 1973), Azure, a candle palewise argent, enflamed at both ends Or, with one CD for adding the mullet.

Tryggr Tyrson. Device, Resubmission to Kingdom. Gyronny of eight gules, argent, sable, argent, gules, argent, sable, argent.

There was a lot of debate about the suitability of this motif and the commentary heralds were in agreement that the current incarnation of the rules made it difficult to conflict check. However, the submitter's name was returned on the August 2009 LoAR, and so the device must be returned for lack of a name to attach to it.

The following submissions received for the January Internal Letter are being returned for administrative reasons.

William Conyan. Name & Device, New.

This name is being administratively returned due to being on an outdated form. Upon resubmission please ensure that the most recent forms are used. The correct forms may be found at http://www.antirheralds.org/submissions/forms/forms.html. The device is being returned due to lack of a name.


1: Genevieve le malicius - New Name

• Submitter desires a female name.
• Meaning (Jennifer the Nasty) most important.

The submitter's branch is Dragon's Mist.

The submitter will accept any changes, desires a feminine name and cares most about the meaning (Jennifer the Nasty) of her name. She expresses no interest in having her name changed to be authentic and will allow the creation of a holding name if necessary.

The following is quoted from the documentation section of the form:

"Both name elements are taken from "DRAFT: Names in the 1292 Census of Paris" by Sara. L. Uckelman, September 3, 2009 found at http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/french/1292paris.pdf. This is a 191 page document. Geneveive is under Feminine names, of page 13

"le malicius is under Other Descriptive Bynames on page 149

"I enclose copies of both pages."

Photocopies of the abovementioned pages are enclosed with this submission, however, the title/introduction page was not.

1: Genevieve le malicius - New Device

Or semy-de-lys a rose purpure

2: Millicent Isabella de la Bere - Resub Device

Per pale vert and azure, a tower between two arrows inverted points bendwise to center and a mullet of five points in chief Or.

The submitter's branch is Three Mountains.

The submitter's name was registered in August of 2009.

The submitter's previous submission of Per pale vert and azure, a tower counterchanged, the portal Or, between two arrows inverted points bendwise to center and a mullet of fivce points in chief Or was returned by Kingdom in May of 2009 for violation of RfS VIII.2.b.i: The field must have good contrast with every charge placed directly on it and with charges placed overall.

3: Piers Dyaue - New Request for Name Reconsideration

Piers the Deaf

• Submitter desires a male name.
• No changes.

The submitter's branch is Aquaterra.

The submitter's primary name of Piers Dyaue was registered in October of 2009.

The submitter will not accept any changes and desires a masculine name.

The following is quoted from the documentation section of the form:

"We believe <the Deaf> should be reasonable for a 13th c. date. The spelling <deaf> is dated in the Middle English Dictionary (s..n. def) to 1225; Reaney and Wilson (s.n. Deave) date <le Deue> to 1251. We believe that the English <the> should be appropriate at this time as well. We certainly see it by c. 1300, when the Middle English Dictionary (s.n. the) dates <sire Randolf þe brok> and in the placename <Theveneswyndon> in 1247."

An Tir OSCAR counts: 1 New Name, 1 New Request for Name Reconsideration, 1 New Device. This gives 3 new items. Resub counts: 1 Resub Device. This is a total of 1 resubmission on this letter, for a total of 4 actions.

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